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Post by Ghast on Oct 21, 2010 14:40:27 GMT -5
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a1
New Member
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Post by a1 on Oct 21, 2010 16:49:09 GMT -5
and also you questioned my maturity earlier about another game, you should look at your maturity befor judging others. ... |
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Post by Knief on Oct 21, 2010 18:01:27 GMT -5
I read these posts as I was leaving work, and didn't have time to respond. So I spend some of the trip home thinking of a theme for my response. Largely because themed posts are fun and its nice to be creative. But also because I believe condescension is totally called for. So my theme is going to be, "Why the Average Sixteen or Seventeen year old can't handle milsim games." I'll take a look a few types of situations that may come up on an airsoft message board, and analyze how a reasonable adult (and a youngster who is beyond his years) would handle the situation compared to how the Average Sixteen/Seventeen year old (hence for referred to as "AS/S") deals with the same situation. This theme isn't aimed at anybody in particular, just random musings about younger players and milsim games.* Please note that these observations may apply to older or younger players as well, but seem to fit most with this specific age range. It seems to have a lot to do with that perceived bridge into adulthood that they almost universally believe they're crossing but in all actuality are not.
The AS/S displays a number of traits which make him a poor participant in a strict, highly regimented milsim game, as these games often require players who can handle themselves well without constant supervision. For instance, the AS/S often has a problem with entitlement, and is therefore not well suited for the necessary team play. As an example, the AS/S might happen upon a forum and see an 18+ event posted. Now, while that post may state that exceptions could be made, a reasonable adult would assume that those exceptions would be granted on some sort of tangible or measurable basis, even if it's just subject empirical data. The AS/S on the other hand, would see that and immediately assume that, even though he's never met the hosts and never played at an event they've hosted--nay, any larger event in the entire state, and is thus completely unknown, he deserves to be allowed in the game. The AS/S takes no time to look at the 18+ rule from the perspective over the event hosts, and asks away.
Here's the next scenario. The player wants to attend an event, but has been politely told that his demographic is not allowed, and that he can't come. He has been invited to check out any other event (being held in the future, of course, not events that are being held in the past), and possibly come out to the next milsim event as an exception. The reasonable adult would take his knock, accept that he can't come and leave it at that. He would also probably try to make it out to the next few games that the event hosts put on to try to get in good with them in hopes of making the next game. The AS/S does nothing of the sort. He insists that he should be allowed to come to the game. He posts repeatedly in the game thread with excuse after excuse for why he should be allowed in. He is told no again, of course. Then he messages the hosts in private to ask again, and is again politely told no and that he can come check out a later game. He doesn't stop, he goes back to the original thread to ask some more. This speaks to the entitlement issue as well, but is also quite telling about a lack of patience. The AS/S can't wait for a later game, he doesn't care about making a good impression for next year's game. All he cares about is getting what he wants when he wants it. Of course, this is a terrible trait for somebody in a milsim game. At a milsim game, some objectives may take patience and an ability to hold back from relentlessly pounding the same wall with utterly futile attacks. Impatience is rampant among the AS/S and his kind, and makes him a poor fit at any milsim game.
Now, any member who posts on a forum is going to be asked to follow some basic rules, rules like grammar. These rules are usually going to be posted somewhere obvious, as well as being reinforced by moderators on the forum and obviously adhered to by the other members of the board. The average adult will probably notice at least one of these red flags and quickly start following rules. But even the average adult misses his cue from time to time. So when he's reminded of a rule, he'll apologize for his infraction and immediately correct his behavior. The AS/S, of course, refuses to do so. Not only does the AS/S ignore every notice of rules posted, he ignores fellow members and moderators who ask him to please follow those well established rules. The AS/S is unconcerned with rules, thinks they don't apply to him, that he is special and doesn't have to act the same way that everybody else is expected to act (and does act, as it turns out). The AS/S rarely ever follows these rules, and often continues to ignore them well into the future. This often results in a ban, but the AS/S might just not be there yet. What he doesn't realize is that continually violating rules is one of the biggest tells that he shouldn't be allowed to play at a milsim game. It's absolutely imperative that all participants at a milsim game adhere very closely to the rules, as violating them usually starts a chain reaction of spiteful cheating throughout the rest of the players. The rule violating AS/S, as it turns out is a lot like a virus, pissing people off around them until they can hardly help themselves but to act like an AS/S right back. While I hate mixing metaphors, sometimes a second will make the problem even more clear. The AS/S draws people toward AS/S-ness simply by doing what they always do. The draw is nearly inevitable, and once it starts, completely irreversible. When the AS/S violates rules, it creates a blackhole effect, and the game is ruined. Thus, the AS/S may also be see as an AS/S-hole when he turns up at games. This, of course, is no good.
There are a number of other situations that may come up to demonstrate the AS/S's negative characteristics. For example, when an AS/S posts in a long dead thread, it demonstrates that he doesn't pay attention. If he can't pay attention to a simple date on a post, how can anybody expect an AS/S to pay attention to the complex scenario of a milsim game. Similarly, the AS/S might post on a thread without reading the entire thing to make sure what he's saying is relevant to the topic, and hasn't already been addressed earlier in the thread (or 11 months ago, as the case may be). This demonstrates the AS/S's tendency to rush into things half-assed. If an AS/S can't even prepare to post in a thread, there's no way he'll be properly prepared for a milsim airsoft game. Everybody makes mistakes, but an AS/S's method of handling them sets him apart from the rest of the crowd. When an AS/S is told that he's made a faux-pas, instead of correcting his behavior, he'll argue that he wasn't in the wrong and that everybody else is. Whatever blatant screw up he committed isn't his fault, and often adds, "Screw anybody who even acknowledges that I made a mistake! You're all immature!" Of course, this demonstrates a stubbornness and lack of willingness to adapt to situations that will be a huge hindrance at a milsim game.
Now, thousands of reasonable adults and a-typical sixteen and seventeen year olds manage to avoid all of these problems across numerous airsoft forums on a daily basis. They demonstrate how easy it is not to fall into the same bad habits and bad attitudes of the AS/S, but for some reason, the AS/S is completely incapable of grasping why everybody else has a problem with him. Throngs of people may point out his mistakes, politely at first but eventually with increasing annoyance. The AS/S will ignore all warnings, and even fight back against helpful guidance. He'll struggle so hard that eventually he stands out as an AS/S among AS/Ses. When that happens, the rest of the community has very little choice but to chastise him until he learns better or cut him loose altogether. This point is easy to see coming, and even the AS/S may recognize it when it smacks him in the face with a 1500 word essay (but maybe not). Here, the AS/S gets to make a choice. Either stop being an AS/S and start falling in line with the rest of the community and become a positive contributor, or continue with his AS/S-y ways and either leave with a hissy fit or be banned by a moderation staff that lets out a collective "meh." You obviously hope that the AS/S makes the right choice and stays an AS/S no more. But that's a choice that only an AS/S can make because only an AS/S would put himself in a position to be faced with such a ridiculous choice.
*this post is entirely aimed at one and only one person. It may apply to others as well, but yeah, that one guy mostly.
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Post by broncoman15 on Oct 21, 2010 19:11:47 GMT -5
Okay, well first off, I am over the whole milsim thing and how I can't come, I really could care less if I go or not. When I refered to maturity earlier, I was talking about how you acting towards me, simply because you were being a TOTAL smart ass. I don't recall asking for that. But if it makes you feel good by fighting with kids younger than you on an airsoft fourm, then by all means go ahead. You could have approached the situation in a more mature way than you did. I am sorry that i did not read the date correctly, usually when an event is towards the top of the list, it is usually recent, am i wrong on that statement???. But i'm just going to be the bigger person and not even fight over this, simply because it's not worth it to me, But maybe to you?, I dont know. So i am just going to drop it.
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Post by M.S.-ARC on Oct 21, 2010 19:56:05 GMT -5
broncoman there are rules in these forums (and also on MIA) that every member have to abide by. It is clear by your posts that you have not even read them or if you have, you chose to ignore them completely. That is grounds for immediate removal from these forums in my book but you are lucky that the other moderators around here are more generous than I am because you are still here. Please take some time to look over the rules and read the topics with a "sticky" note  Failure to do so may result in your account being removed. Consider this a brick wall. "The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough." If you want to continue pursuing the sport of airsoft you may actually find this site helpful in that cause as it was for me. If you continue on the way you have been then you will just be one in a number of n00bs who came by and didn't make it past the brick wall. |
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Post by broncoman15 on Oct 22, 2010 5:46:47 GMT -5
See here is the problem, I find this fourm very helpful, I am not trying to cause problems. But their are some people that dont know what matuirty is all about. I am tired of the smart comments and the fighting, people have to realize that this is just a fourm. But i can't really do anything about it, all i can do is stand up for my opinion, thats it. I am honestly trying to follow the rules, I have read them, and I am going to read them again. I am trying me best to climb over you brick wall, but it is difficult when you have a dog biting at you'r heels.
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Post by Knief on Oct 22, 2010 5:55:48 GMT -5
I like the dog analogy. Think about, that dog was licking your hand for well over a week while you sat there petting him too hard, like a small child who doesn't know better. At first he put up with it. But when he tried to tell you that you were petting him too hard with a little growl, you ignored it. When he got a little louder, you fought back. You held him down even harder and continued to rub him raw. What do you expect the dog to do? He dealt with your problems and gave you positive feedback. Then he gave you the most polite warning he could that maybe you were doing something wrong. Then he let you know a little more forcefully. At what point is the dog doing what he has to do to get you to stop grating his back?
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Post by broncoman15 on Oct 22, 2010 13:41:24 GMT -5
Okay, Here we go again. What are you trying to prove, I already told you that I did not care if I went to the milsim game or not, Or are you still mad that I proved you wrong and told you that a M14 was in fact a support weapon. I still don't understand, So could you please enlighten me. The only reason i was "Petting the dog to hard" was simply because I was supporting true information. Also by the way, I read the argument between you and that other kid. All i have to say is real nice, you showed him.
P.S.- NOT ALL SUPPORT GUNS HAVE BIPODS!!, So don't tell other people false information.
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a1
New Member
Posts: 89
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Post by a1 on Oct 22, 2010 14:12:11 GMT -5
P.S.- NOT ALL SUPPORT GUNS HAVE BIPODS!!, So don't tell other people false information. That would make one useless and in-accurate support weapon.   |
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Post by Ghast on Oct 22, 2010 14:23:46 GMT -5
Okay, Here we go again. What are you trying to prove, I already told you that I did not care if I went to the milsim game or not, Or are you still mad that I proved you wrong and told you that a M14 was in fact a support weapon. I still don't understand, So could you please enlighten me. The only reason i was "Petting the dog to hard" was simply because I was supporting true information. Also by the way, I read the argument between you and that other kid. All i have to say is real nice, you showed him. P.S.- NOT ALL SUPPORT GUNS HAVE BIPODS!!, So don't tell other people false information. Ok dude, I'm getting really sick and tired of you trying to pick a fight. Now I don't think I can give you a warning for doing so, but I'd really like to. |
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Post by Knief on Oct 22, 2010 14:30:53 GMT -5
My fiance says that I should cut it with the smartass appraoch and try being blunt (actually, she said "mean," but so I'm going with a combination).
You are a pest. In the dog analogy, you petting us too hard means that you were asking us to go to the game too much. You were wrongly correcting us on our definition of guns allowed at our event. And to top it off, you posted in a dead thread after not reading the entire thing, which would have been helpful to you because you would have seen that a) the thread was dead and b) somebody else was already in trouble for ressurecting it. If you don't understand why almost everything you did here has been annoying, take a few minutes and think about it. I mean really do it. Look at it from our perspective. Imagine how many kids like you have come here with the exact same attitude in the last 5 years and caused the exact same problems. The imagine why we're a little tired of the new members with entitlement issues who ignore the rules.
Nobody is mad at you about the M14 thing because it's painfully clear to the rest of us that you're wrong. We're all annoyed with you because you keep doing stupid stuff. But worse, you fail to acknowledge that anything you've done is wrong. And here you are, still badgering away. You think you're proving some point but in the rest of our eyes, you're digging yourself deeper into the hole with every post.
If this is something that you don't get, you're probably not a good fit for this community. Go check out MWAC or something. As long as you bow down to Redknight they love you over there. AirsoftRetreat might be a better place for you to get your feet wet or get a second chance. Because if you're going to keep acting as poorly as you have been, this isn't going to end well for you here.
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Post by Hello "Biscuit" Kitty on Oct 22, 2010 14:36:08 GMT -5
Broncoman, please continue to post more bullshit, it makes my day that much more enjoyable.
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a1
New Member
Posts: 89
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Post by a1 on Oct 22, 2010 17:41:03 GMT -5
Broncoman, please continue to post more bullshit, it makes my day that much more enjoyable. Looks like the internet is starting to show its ugly face.  My fiance says that I should cut it with the smartass appraoch and try being blunt (actually, she said "mean," but so I'm going with a combination). Go check out MWAC or something. As long as you bow down to Redknight they love you over there. ^^^ He left. It's only a few high ranking members like myself, and is turning into a wasteland much like this one. He can try going there and make a friendly appearance, but that wont change the damage already done to himself. I will shall warn MWAC of the advancing storm... |
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Post by broncoman15 on Oct 22, 2010 19:27:02 GMT -5
Okay I would like to apologize for my pain in the ass behavior, But their was no reason to act the way you did earlier. You could have just said no the game was a year ago, And I would have been fine with that. We could have avoided this whole argument. I know that I misread the ad but I posted my comment early in the morning and I was short on time and I did not read the date correctly, I'm sorry. And by the way, I already told you about 1,000,000 times that I was over not getting in the milsim game, SO WHY DO YOU KEEP BRINGING IT UP!!!!!. I admit that i was wrong and i asked to get in into the game way to much, But I am sick of hearing people saying that I'm not mature and I am only 16, I have been turned down before but for whatever reason, This time I just snapped and I wouldn't take no for an answer, But I realize that now that I was a pain and I should have just dropped it way before. So I will say it again, I'm sorry. But about the whole M14 thing, I study military firearms for my enjoyment, So I know what I am talking about when I bring up a point or argument about something that has to do with guns. You can believe what you want about guns and firearms, and thats O.K., But when I bring up a point on guns or really anything else, I bring up straight facts not opinion.
P.S.- About high caps, I tested how long it would take to shoot off a 400 round high cap VS. 3 mid caps holding about the same amount of ammo and it was fasted to shoot of 3 midcaps holding about 400 rounds total than shooting off one 400 round highcap, Simply because it took way longer to wind the high cap. So take this information into consideration next time you make rules for another airsoft game.(NOTE:I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, but I did test this idea with my friends M4)
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Post by Ghast on Oct 22, 2010 19:39:39 GMT -5
We haven't been bringing it up, you have. On your point about the M-14. The M-14 is an infantry assault rifle, there have been several variants of it. Most notably the M-21, which is an enhanced and modified M-14 for sniper applications. The other M-14 variant is the M-14 A1, which is indeed a Light Support Weapon. However the M14, is NOT a LSW.  Here's a pic to prove you wrong. On the subject of Hi-caps; Cool? I wasn't aware it was up for debate. We know the hi-cap takes longer overall. They aren't restricted from MILSIM events because people think they're faster. They're restricted because if we didn't restrict them, you can bet your ass I'm going to load up my vest with 10 hi-caps and run around with 4000 rounds of ammunition. This, however, inherently defeats the purpose of MILSIM. Thus, high caps are banned from MILSIM events. Your next post had better be worthy of submission to a college professor because if I see one grammatical or typographical error in it, I will issue another warning. Happy Airsofting  |
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